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FutureGarageForum.com • View topic - Self-marketing

Self-marketing

Discuss Production Techniques and ask Production Questions here.

Self-marketing

Postby blnd! » Mon May 07, 2012 11:11 pm

While not strictly related to production if u write music it's very handy to know something about these things.
Anyway, feel free to post strategies, best practices, guides, ideas, tips, links, etc...

Lemme start it:
The 10 Biggest Mistakes Artists and Creatives Make at Internet Marketing (and How to Fix Them)
kinda the basics, identifies the problems and offers solutions, makes it sound so easy :) its a 10 points list stuff like set up an email list, buy your own domain, use SEO, target relevant groups on social networking sites etc

Net / Social Checklist for Musicians
also basics but a bit more specific, focusing on how to set up a homebase for your music project(s)
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Re: Self-marketing

Postby Stealth Elf » Tue May 08, 2012 10:51 am

There are lots of things I've seen similar to those links that seem to give the impression that as soon as you make a facebook account you're a mega star and I haven't been able to find anything that tells you what to do once you're actually on all the bloody networking sites but still you're not generating any interest. I feel like I've tried every trick in the book but nothing works :( or I have the wrong book.

SAD FACE.
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Re: Self-marketing

Postby ljp » Tue May 08, 2012 2:51 pm

Here's a little something:

Signing into your SoundCloud will make you appear in other peoples "following" isle on their page assuming they're following you.
Think about it, you're checking some guys stuff, and you scroll down, see his following isle, (even more of a reason to have a cool avatar or what have ya, might make the picking process easier in your favor) ... click, listen, potential follow. I've certainly found people this way.

Obviously don't keep your computer running, but if you're on the internet, you might as well log in. If a recognised artist is following you, consider it free advertisement. Obviously the followers aren't going to flood, but you'll pick up and odd one here and there and when you get more followers it snowballs.

Sorry if this is common knowledge or anything, just thought I'd share.

Also, comment on peoples tracks, don't be one of these pestering morons who are like "nice track... (if they even listened) ... check out my new XYZ track and give me feed back etc etc blah blah :D :D :D :D :D :D thanks!!!" Just an honest, sometimes constructive comment, even if it's just one word. If the artist is unrecognised with barely any follows or comments on their tracks, they might straight up check your profile out. If on a bigger artist, that's still your name popping up for a few seconds. Sometimes if I see the same person comment on different tracks I'm listening to, I check out their stuff out of curiosity, once again, don't expect floods of followers but i'm sure you'll pick up the odd one here and there.

Also, I'm sure posting on forums with links to your soundcloud in your sig (i'm refraining from posting mine until I get something I'm pleased with up) will get a few clicks here and there, especially in topics which might pop up on the first page of google. Especially helpful informative posts, I've found many sick artists on this site, and I normally click on sc links when the post has been informative or interesting.

Uploading your tracks to youtube, might get you a few more listeners, although they tend to be more "casual" listeners on yt. Contact a few youtube promoters as well, without these promoters I doubt I'd even have found like 50% of the artists I'm following or listening to. Haven't properly read first post yet, so my bad if I repeated this.

All these little things help I guess, then it's just keep doing what you're doing, be patient and make some listenable music.
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Re: Self-marketing

Postby beebmun » Tue May 08, 2012 3:47 pm

ljp wrote:Here's a little something:

Signing into your SoundCloud will make you appear in other peoples "following" isle on their page assuming they're following you.
Think about it, you're checking some guys stuff, and you scroll down, see his following isle, (even more of a reason to have a cool avatar or what have ya, might make the picking process easier in your favor) ... click, listen, potential follow. I've certainly found people this way.

Obviously don't keep your computer running, but if you're on the internet, you might as well log in. If a recognised artist is following you, consider it free advertisement. Obviously the followers aren't going to flood, but you'll pick up and odd one here and there and when you get more followers it snowballs.

Sorry if this is common knowledge or anything, just thought I'd share.

Also, comment on peoples tracks, don't be one of these pestering morons who are like "nice track... (if they even listened) ... check out my new XYZ track and give me feed back etc etc blah blah :D :D :D :D :D :D thanks!!!" Just an honest, sometimes constructive comment, even if it's just one word. If the artist is unrecognised with barely any follows or comments on their tracks, they might straight up check your profile out. If on a bigger artist, that's still your name popping up for a few seconds. Sometimes if I see the same person comment on different tracks I'm listening to, I check out their stuff out of curiosity, once again, don't expect floods of followers but i'm sure you'll pick up the odd one here and there.

Also, I'm sure posting on forums with links to your soundcloud in your sig (i'm refraining from posting mine until I get something I'm pleased with up) will get a few clicks here and there, especially in topics which might pop up on the first page of google. Especially helpful informative posts, I've found many sick artists on this site, and I normally click on sc links when the post has been informative or interesting.

Uploading your tracks to youtube, might get you a few more listeners, although they tend to be more "casual" listeners on yt. Contact a few youtube promoters as well, without these promoters I doubt I'd even have found like 50% of the artists I'm following or listening to. Haven't properly read first post yet, so my bad if I repeated this.

All these little things help I guess, then it's just keep doing what you're doing, be patient and make some listenable music.


yup. You obv went to the beeb school of marketing too lol
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Re: Self-marketing

Postby blnd! » Tue May 08, 2012 3:47 pm

TLDR: increase your EdgeRank!
Stealth Elf wrote:There are lots of things I've seen similar to those links that seem to give the impression that as soon as you make a facebook account you're a mega star and I haven't been able to find anything that tells you what to do once you're actually on all the bloody networking sites but still you're not generating any interest. I feel like I've tried every trick in the book but nothing works :( or I have the wrong book.

SAD FACE.

Did you actually read this article http://lateralaction.com/articles/artis ... marketing/?
3. Social Media Narcissism is about what to do and how to do it, but if that's not detailed enough, maybe it's worth to read these Facebook guides:
http://ads.ak.facebook.com/ads/Facebook ... 022712.pdf
http://www.facebook-studio.com/fbassets ... eGuide.pdf
(The second one is more detailed, the parts about The Facebook ecosystem (Build - Engage - Amplify) and the Five guiding principles are the most important imo.)

Anyway I visited your facebook page, it is indeed not really interesting: you barely post anything, sometimes you don't answer the comments, you posted you music only six times in april. Just think about how many times you would notice your page posts while checkin your news feed (logged in with your profile). I have cca 300 friends and liked 500 pages, but i dont see them all in my wall, because there is a so-called 'News Feed Optimalisation' (EdgeRank) which means just a percentage of the posts will appear in your news feed. Users/pages with a higher EdgeRank are more likely to be displayed in your stream (except if you use 'Most recent' like a pro hahaha). You can read more about EdgeRank here and here. I find another useful post 6 Tips to Increase Your Facebook EdgeRank and Exposure (very basic stuff tho).

I dont wanna give the impression like im some expert (although i read dozens of books on marketing, strategic plannin, branding and shite - what a waste of time haha), i'm learning this game just like any of you. I didn't paid much attention to my fb page tbh, just posted some random shite sometimes. I just coulddn't be arsed to switch to my page and back to my profile and stuff like that. But as my well educated friend, and expert in these matters, Mr Bryan Beeb said 'can't be arsed = no marketing strategy' :D
And this made me realise that fb is a very useful tool, or it can be so i'd be fool not use it more efficently. I usually use 2 browsers anyway, so what i do now is i'm logged in with the profile and the page at the same time. I liked most of the pages i liked with my profile, so i can see their stuff poppin up on my wall. But i don't wanna spoil Beeb's novel hahaha, altho i can post a BEFORE/AFTER pic:
Image
I started to use my page more actively after 13th of april and suddenly my total reach wasnt 300 but 1600.

Not facebook focused, more general step-by-step guide by Topspin, really good stuff :!:
Getting Practical: A Step-By-Step Guide to Building an Online Marketing Plan That Works
(You can download the pdf)
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Re: Self-marketing

Postby Lye Form » Tue May 08, 2012 4:46 pm

By day i'm actually an SEO/ Social media consultant...

I should be mega star by now...
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Re: Self-marketing

Postby beebmun » Tue May 08, 2012 8:15 pm

blnd! wrote:TLDR: increase your EdgeRank!
Stealth Elf wrote:There are lots of things I've seen similar to those links that seem to give the impression that as soon as you make a facebook account you're a mega star and I haven't been able to find anything that tells you what to do once you're actually on all the bloody networking sites but still you're not generating any interest. I feel like I've tried every trick in the book but nothing works :( or I have the wrong book.

SAD FACE.

Did you actually read this article http://lateralaction.com/articles/artis ... marketing/?
3. Social Media Narcissism is about what to do and how to do it, but if that's not detailed enough, maybe it's worth to read these Facebook guides:
http://ads.ak.facebook.com/ads/Facebook ... 022712.pdf
http://www.facebook-studio.com/fbassets ... eGuide.pdf
(The second one is more detailed, the parts about The Facebook ecosystem (Build - Engage - Amplify) and the Five guiding principles are the most important imo.)

Anyway I visited your facebook page, it is indeed not really interesting: you barely post anything, sometimes you don't answer the comments, you posted you music only six times in april. Just think about how many times you would notice your page posts while checkin your news feed (logged in with your profile). I have cca 300 friends and liked 500 pages, but i dont see them all in my wall, because there is a so-called 'News Feed Optimalisation' (EdgeRank) which means just a percentage of the posts will appear in your news feed. Users/pages with a higher EdgeRank are more likely to be displayed in your stream (except if you use 'Most recent' like a pro hahaha). You can read more about EdgeRank here and here. I find another useful post 6 Tips to Increase Your Facebook EdgeRank and Exposure (very basic stuff tho).

I dont wanna give the impression like im some expert (although i read dozens of books on marketing, strategic plannin, branding and shite - what a waste of time haha), i'm learning this game just like any of you. I didn't paid much attention to my fb page tbh, just posted some random shite sometimes. I just coulddn't be arsed to switch to my page and back to my profile and stuff like that. But as my well educated friend, and expert in these matters, Mr Bryan Beeb said 'can't be arsed = no marketing strategy' :D
And this made me realise that fb is a very useful tool, or it can be so i'd be fool not use it more efficently. I usually use 2 browsers anyway, so what i do now is i'm logged in with the profile and the page at the same time. I liked most of the pages i liked with my profile, so i can see their stuff poppin up on my wall. But i don't wanna spoil Beeb's novel hahaha, altho i can post a BEFORE/AFTER pic:
Image
I started to use my page more actively after 13th of april and suddenly my total reach wasnt 300 but 1600.

Not facebook focused, more general step-by-step guide by Topspin, really good stuff :!:
Getting Practical: A Step-By-Step Guide to Building an Online Marketing Plan That Works
(You can download the pdf)




It's all about putting the work in. Not being afraid of looking like a douche or a spammer, being upfront about your promotion and having a completely honest dialogue with people throughout.


Don't be lazy, if you want something to happen spend every spare minute talking to people and making friends cos this is the most important part of marketing and business = networking. But it's also the most important part because it's the most fun as people are 99% of the time great to talk to, especially if you have a shared interest in music!


I could go on forever about this topic but blnd! pretty much summed up my feelings in one quote.

I have just under 300 "likes" on facebook and my weekly reach never goes under 5000. Get people engaged. It doesn't just have to be a page about your music, it's a page about you as an artist and a person too. So let that show through.

Regarding other points in general, don't be lazy and reply to everyone. Keep talking and talking! you'll love it!
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Re: Self-marketing

Postby Kolendo » Tue May 08, 2012 8:54 pm

Woah, great tips! This is definitely something I need to work on.

I'm no pro at marketing my music, but the method of getting follows/listens of my music that has worked best is to network on a shitload of websites.
Last.fm, Resident Advisor, Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Tumblr, ReverbNation, Soundcloud (obviously), and Mixcloud are just a few that I use.
Soundcloud is especially good, particularly the groups. Try and post on ones that have more people following and a high song post within.
Oh, also it doesn't hurt to post on other forums. The more people you can reach, the better (the dubstep ones are especially good to post on these days).

Giving out free music helps too. All my remixes are free to download (unless I have the legal rights to remix it and sell it), and I will occasionally give out originals.
Handing out exclusive music/demos to promotional websites or channels (for example, MrSuicideSheep on YouTube) is a great way of widening your reach.
Again, check to see how many subscribers the channel has. Channel subscribers on YouTube in particular often end up religiously checking new uploads, so you'll get a huge amount of listeners and potential followers.
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Re: Self-marketing

Postby blnd! » Wed May 09, 2012 7:21 pm

Lye Form wrote:By day i'm actually an SEO/ Social media consultant...

I should be mega star by now...

haha so how come u aint?
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Self-marketing

Postby Stealth Elf » Thu May 10, 2012 8:35 am

I just don't wanna annoy people :s I always think there's nothing worse than when you follow a page and then they spam your feed all day. I figure once people have liked my page they are there already so any posting on that page is only reaching people who already know who I am and won't want me cluttering their news feed :\

I wouldn't say I've been lazy, I've put loads of time and effort into posting on forums and talking to people etc but it never seems to go my way blah blah I hate Christmas.

EDIT: How do you like other pages when you're signed in as your music page? I know I've done it by accident a couple of times but whenever I try and do it deliberately I like type people into the bar and nothing comes up :s
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Re: Self-marketing

Postby blnd! » Thu May 10, 2012 11:14 am

Stealth Elf wrote:I just don't wanna annoy people :s I always think there's nothing worse than when you follow a page and then they spam your feed all day. I figure once people have liked my page they are there already so any posting on that page is only reaching people who already know who I am and won't want me cluttering their news feed :\

I wouldn't say I've been lazy, I've put loads of time and effort into posting on forums and talking to people etc but it never seems to go my way blah blah I hate Christmas.

EDIT: How do you like other pages when you're signed in as your music page? I know I've done it by accident a couple of times but whenever I try and do it deliberately I like type people into the bar and nothing comes up :s

Well thats the thing, you not gonna spam their feed, cuz its not gonna pop up in their feed, unless they interact frequently with your page (the EdgeRank ting!), and if they do, that means they wouldnt mind the posts. I don't really care about their feelings tbh. If they have any problem with the stuff i post, they can go and unlike or hide the feed at any time. I'm not saying you should post stuff on the page every time you are online (i tend to make at least 2-4 posts/day though), but if you don't post frequently don't be surprised you don't really gain exposure (on facebook). I mean why should anyone visit my page if i don't have any content on it?

Well, you can do that, and that should work, if not sometimes i open the pages i liked with my profile first, then sign in as a page refresh the tab and like it.
And i stay signed in with my page (almost) all the time, i like more known pages (like 'famous' artists, magazin, blog, utube channels...) and i try to be active, obv i dont just go and like every shite they post, but if they post something interesting i rather like that with my page than with my profile, and commenting is even more important.

:idea: But obviously the world is not only facebook, that Topsin material is really useful imo :!: But seriously, y'all should read it!

Kolendo wrote:Soundcloud is especially good, particularly the groups. Try and post on ones that have more people following and a high song post within.
Oh, also it doesn't hurt to post on other forums. The more people you can reach, the better (the dubstep ones are especially good to post on these days).

I always share my tracks with (relevant) groups, but not sure anyone checks those groups (maybe just because i barely do :D), but i guess they can channel some traffic to your SC, especially the moderated groups.

ljp wrote:Signing into your SoundCloud will make you appear in other peoples "following" isle on their page assuming they're following you.
Think about it, you're checking some guys stuff, and you scroll down, see his following isle, (even more of a reason to have a cool avatar or what have ya, might make the picking process easier in your favor) ... click, listen, potential follow. I've certainly found people this way.

Obviously don't keep your computer running, but if you're on the internet, you might as well log in. If a recognised artist is following you, consider it free advertisement. Obviously the followers aren't going to flood, but you'll pick up and odd one here and there and when you get more followers it snowballs

Didn't know that, cheers! I thought it's some random thing, good to know being online on SC pays off haha
And yeah second what u wrote abot being active, altho it can take a lot of time (if u really wanna listen the tracks, not just comment some shite :lol: )
Also i usually check out the tunes of the fresh followers, and even if i dont follow them back, i often comment / favorite the tracks i like.
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Self-marketing

Postby Stealth Elf » Thu May 10, 2012 12:07 pm

Lol I'm clearly inept at this side of things. I never even look at who my new followers are on SC. Gotta start getting more involved.
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Re: Self-marketing

Postby Mike Hindle » Thu May 10, 2012 1:42 pm

I'd say be persistant and passionate about what your trying to get people to listen to, but don't go overboard. Look at what works and what doesn't.

If it's worth promoting and you are feeding it to the right people they will talk about it.

And lastly, be prepaired to put the hours in, spend time getting to know other producers and artists in your genre, connect with them on Soundcloud, Facebook, Twitter etc and build up relationships, offer feedback, start a blog, record your own podcast / radio show, use your Soundcloud stats to see who's downloading your tracks then send the next track to these people as a priority etc etc.

There's quite a few books on this sort of stuff, not all based on music but marketing yourself and building a platform, that can be applied to music. This one's gonna be my next read http://www.amazon.co.uk/Platform-Michae ... DKEDBINWEF
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Re: Self-marketing

Postby Mike Hindle » Thu May 10, 2012 2:02 pm



The Lateral Action site is quality, loads of good info on there :) Cheers for the link.
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